[No:198][Jeanette]  [98/8/7  13:35:32]  
I just heard about him in a chat. Looked him up in Yahoo, and read this time line on him. Facinating, I will be purchasing Julienne tomorrow. I find his phillosiphies intriguing and provoking thought and consideration.

[No:199][Jeanette]  [98/8/7  13:57:0]  
I have been reviewing some of your writings in this discussion area. Bare in mind, i'm new at this, but "Pleasure is wasted if it is shared..."? This makes no sense that he would say that. Why did he publish his books, if not to share. Humanity shares, does it not in some extent? If it didn't why would there be violence shown on the news programs? They don't need to show the blood, or dead. It is simply their sharing the perversion and pain which we all, in some way , crave. Re: Women and dominance, I must be strange. I like to dominate in society, partake in what has been denied to us through the centuries. Yet, in the bedroom, I can prefer both. Is there something wrong with wanting both?

[No:201][Laird Ruthven]  [98/8/10  2:14:7] [Comment Number-201] 

Jeanette...No, there is nothing unusual about your divided interests in the bedroom. Most people that I know well enough to discus this vice with freely admit deriving pleasure from both roles, although one tends to be stronger than the other and the more one experiments the more one discovers which role he/she enjoys the most. Actually, I find that in the privacy of the bedroom, the role one finds most enjoyable is often the opposite of the role they play in public. Therefore assertive and overly aggressive people tend to enjoy the submissive role and passive or less aggressive people tend to enjoy the dominent role. This is not true in all cases, nor am I confessing to be some overly passive person, but at the same time I am not overly aggressive in general, and will frequently accept things that perhaps I shouldn't in the interest of avoiding a conflict I don't feel is worth the trouble. Digression aside, I have no idea how sexually experienced you are, but sooner or later you will probably find a preference for one role over another. By the way, this enjoyment of both roles is reflected in most de Sade's works. Rarely does one of his libertines escape some manner of physical abuse during the story, even if he has to intentionally call it down upon his self. Truth is, almost everyone likes to play the opposite role every now and then, if for no better reason than for the novelty of a change.

[No:202][Jeanette]  [98/8/10  16:35:59]  
Laird actually I am experienced enough. In case you were wondering. I am reading Juliette, and although just starting, I find many similarities in her outlook on life. I was exposed to sexuality at a very early age. I lived with my dad, and he had many girlfriends. He was always a very sexual person (not with me) more so, how he flirted, with them. Plus with the drive in movies and magazines, I learned at a very early age what it was all about. No doubt why I may different decisions.
What i have noticed about myself is with my ex (I was only with a yr and 1/2 fresh from the house) I was very willing to try different things. But always felt a little guilt, like I had just masturbated or something.
Now, I'm remarried, and been with him for 5 years. I find myself not the wild woman I use to be. Which was fine at first. But know I find myself wanting to break out of my shell. Problem is, I don't know how to get back into it.
I had been hurt so many times, just didn't make it my top priority. (Thankfully, my husband wasn't experienced like me, and doesn't know that something's missing with me.)
I am quite too shy now to mention things that i wouldn't mind trying. I think i'm doomed to have an old lady's sex life.
Re: Justine- I have been so inspired by what ppl have said (on this page) was missing that i'm working on a book. something way more real, with all the real thoughts during each occurence of tragedy (if you shal call it that), something so graphic, it will cause an uproar in today's society.
I'm trying to write a couple pages a day, so I don't get burned out. Plus, i have to revise, and rewrite before it can get published.
I will make sure I update everyone on it's progress.

[No:203][laird Ruthven]  [98/8/14  12:24:31] [Comment Number-203] 

Jeanette...I suppose that if you are unwilling to convince your husband to play around a bit more, your fate may very well turn out as you described it. However, I have known two couples who eventually seperated because of similar sexual problems. one seperation was initiated by the man, the other by the woman. Although the guy wouldn't go into much detail, the woman did. As I see it she was in situation somewhat akin to yours, and in my opinion she just played along until she could do so no longer and simply left him. Of course I don't know you at all, but if are seriously frustrated, convince your man to be a bit more daring. Or such is my advice for what it's worth.

Keep us informed about your book...

[No:204][sinestra]  [98/8/21  2:53:4] [Comment Number-1] []
Hello to all and please pardon the intrusion. As this is my first ever posting to a message board, I am sure to make a few slight mistakes so please bear with me. I have noticed that most of the conversation takes place between Laird Ruthven and Jeanette. Quite intelligent conversation , gathered from what Ive read. I just have a few comments to make if I may. First, I am very happy and relieved to have found a site that will let me express my desires and thoughts about my passions without the usual "snickering behind the hand" that seems to be abundant when these desires are made public..and secondly, I , for one, have never had the desire to take on the Dominant role. In life and in the bedroom, my behaviours have always been as the submissive. It gets tedious at times trying to explain this to people. Either they are under the opinion that I have poor self-esteem ( which couldn't be further from the truth) or I just lay non-moving during the act of intercourse...again another misconception. I find That it gives me great and intense physical and emotional pleasure to submit my will to my boyfriend. We are both still learning this together but I cannot possibly see myself in any other life. I guess that I am much more fortunate then most as I was lucky enough to find a lover who enjoyed this as much as I..of course we did meet on-line which makes it alot easier, but that is another story. Well I imagine that I have said my peace...Thank you for reading this far....RAven

[No:206][laird Ruthven]  [98/8/23  8:44:23] [Comment Number-205] 

Hello Raven...I'm glad to see that you decided to pop in. Anyway, regarding your comments about "low self-esteem" and the like; in my opnion such Freudian drivel is absolute rubbish. People, like lesser animals, are born with particular personalities, and while Freud style external stimuli can effect these personalities, the core of who and what the individual is exists from birth and can only be mildly perverted thereafter. Have you ever owned cats? If so, presumably at one time or another you have raised a litter of kittens. Within such a litter, there are always those who are aggressive/dominating, those who are passive/submissive, and those who vary in between these two extremes. These traits exist among cats although they have no concept of "self esteem", no concept of higher self awareness, and couldn't care less about their outward appearance. I suggest that, although we like to pretend otherwise, that we as people are also born with the same social inclinations as the kittens mentioned above. To hell with Freud and his, mostly disproven, modern myths. If you find yourself more confortable, both in life and in the bedroom, in a submissive role, so be it and why even bother trying to justify this? One can not oppose his/her genetic disposition any more than one can oppose the other great moving forces in nature, so precisely what is the point in trying? Such pursuits seem a fine way to eradicate the pleasure of life.

[No:207][Laird Ruthven]  [98/8/23  8:55:1] [Comment Number-206] 

By the way, I believe my preceding comments also represent an accurate reflection of part of the philosophy of de Sade. In my opinion, he was opposed to morality, ethics, and religion not because these devices sought uniform conformity, but because these devices were used as a means of putting mankind above, or beyond, nature. In trying to deny our natural predispositions, we deny our humanity; destroying the pleasure of life through intentionally sacrificing all pleasure to maintain our delusions of grandeur. Which is preferable, to be an unhappy god; or a happy animal? De Sade chose the latter, and I agree.

[No:209][Matthew]  [98/8/27  9:19:48]  
De Sade knew the truth that lies at the core of life. By ripping open the flesh and indulging the sensuality of the task, he was able to lay bare all that the psyche of man had to offer...all the wondrous beauty of the torture and so doing he mimicked th awful existance we lead...'less we explore what he offered, what we all have within us. To explore is to liberate oneself from the petty morality disguised, packaged and offered to the putrid masses. The muse should never balked at starving half of France. What beauty would lie within this display if one were well fed, well fucked and amongst these starving creatures. What wonderous beauty.

[No:210][Jeanette]  [98/8/29  8:18:2]  []
I made it back here finally. Well, after writing many pages and trying to think of all that I felt at the time...I decided it was too deep, dark and depressing.Maybe, someday I will sit down with someone and let them write my story. As far as the sex life, well, I started speaking, o.k. screaming a little more and he really likes it. He didn't think he could actually cum twice in a day. I proved him wrong, finally. Once, I get him a little wired up, i'll get him to explore new things. Not sure I want to do a 3rd party thing cuz i'm too insecure and I would get jealous as hell. But other things I might do. I would really like to know what men like in bed. Always had this secret desire to be an expert in bed. Be glad to answer questions on women.

[No:211][Lewis]  [98/8/29  13:28:32] [Comment Number-211] 

I am new to this list, but I must say I am particularly impressed with the level of discussion. Especially from Laird and Jeanette.
I was wondering if anyone has, along with their respective research/study of de Sade, done any such studies as to his impact on and the furthering of Sadean ideas by others? Most notably the works of Georges Bataille and Michel Foucault. I find the previously mentioned authors' theories on "limit experiences", "erotisism", and "transgression" to be perfect adjunts to Sadean thought. Any opinions? Thank you for your consideration.

[No:213][Matthew]  [98/9/1  8:5:7] [Comment Number-2] 
The genius of De Sade lies not within the various modern commentaries on the man's works but within the works themselves. Whether one is writhing in the sensualtity of 120 Days of Sodom or the more intellectual Philosophy in the Bedroom, the reader experiences a world unlike any previously explored. A world contrasted to the dominant moral structure as one of Superior Beings preying upon the inferior. The Superior defined as one who acts, becoming one with the act and thereby elevating oneself to the plane of pure beauty. As one brother put in The Brothers Karamozov: we do it because we can. If one wishes to indulge oneself, go ahead. There is no moral arbiter but you.

[No:221][Jeanette]  [98/9/9  1:55:11]  
Just wanted to express my gratitude for those who have emailed me and encouraged me to continue with by book. At this time, I have a few too many things on my plate, including a dessert that I shouldn't be tempted by. Maybe it will end up being part of the book (that I will someday complete) or maybe I will forever keep it and savour the flavour and never share.